Wednesday, 23 October 2013

Making Your Own Jam


Blog reader Jo has emailed me about the new traffic ensemble that is now using Hampton Road (parallel to the high street) in the morning. She says:
"In the summer it was used as a new main road for drivers attempting to avoid the Central Road roadworks. This not only meant our quiet street became as noisy as a road, but the speed some motorists chose to drive down was just plain dangerous. This is our road this morning [pictured above]. Since the roadworks have finished the same drivers decided it worked well for them to cut down Kingsmead Avenue, Hampton road, and then through Waitrose car park [Stone Place]. However, they don't seem to have realised you can't do this anymore and are now all just piling up and stuck in one big jam. Ironically, when we walked past it, the high street was running smoothly and this lot who had to push out one car at a time were all trapped!"
Thanks Jo for the picture as well!


45 COMMENTS (Add Yours Now!):

MrFedUp said...

Jo is absolutely right. The traffic on Hampton Road has become a joke. Hopefully, someone is taking note at how the traffic that used to queue in the Waitrose Car park has been shifted back up onto Windsor and Hampton Road, where the general impact on people must be far worse.

Alex said...

Unfortunately, Sutton's Outer London Fund Team responsible for removing cars from the local car park and pushing them onto the residential streets apparently seem to think this new arrangement is working beautifully. If you think different, you can tell them your experiences using this email address: OLF-ProjectTeam@sutton.gov.uk

Oh, and do expect to be told that you're the first person in Worcester Park who has expressed anything less than unreservedly positive experiences!

Maria said...

I agree with Jo, the road is constantly busy with people trying to avoid the high street and people who are looking for free parking near the station.
It will be great to have the road one way and residential parking with 2 hours free those who want to make use of the high street.

Guest said...

I for one am thrilled I sold and moved out of Moreton Road just before the Waitrose car park entrance became one way. I have since been to the Moreton Road at rush hour and there is now a queue going nearly all the way up the road (and Hampton Road) who are all trying to turn right onto Windsor Road to get out onto the high street at Pizza Express where they previously queued in Waitrose car park - effectively out of everyones way.

Now they simply queue in the residential streets. It is madness.



Changing the entrance to the car park has ruined everything. The road never had traffic on it previously.


In ann honestly, the traffic problems in Worcester Park have pretty much spread to everywhere now! It is a horrible, horrible place to live in my opinion simply due to having to queue to get anywhere!



Yes yes I know the irony of wanting to go out in my own car which isnt helping things...

Mr Aziz said...

There aren't any traffic problems in WP because it can accommodate any number of minority groups in large numbers in their cars.

chas said...

What on earth does that mean!

Barry Cullum said...

Chas... I think you've already worked that one out for yourself mate.....

Stewart Cons Mackay said...

I'll be going around Hampton Road this morning with a petition, if you see please feel free to stop and sign it.

Another local resident said...

Make yourself heard. 
The now queuing on the residential roads around Stone Place is directly due to the introduction one-way system down by Iceland. This system is supposed to be in a trial period. The review is in November, when, where and who makes the decision Sutton council is yet to inform. The project manager of the OLF (Outer London Fund) spending (Mike Francis) assures that there will be a consultation session at WP library about the impact of the one-way system and local residents will be informed when. The OLF team have planned and implemented most of the changes to Worcester Park i.e. flower beds, pavement chages, benches, drop curbs, one-way system...
Please, hold persons accountable if this one-way system persists, by making the problem formally known. It is only by numbers we could possibly reverse this. Below are contact details of the OLF team and local Councillors (the latter are supposed to represent the local people)

Email in one go:
OLF-ProjectTeam@sutton.gov.uk
micheal.francis@sutton.gov.uk
Kirsty.jermone@sutton.gov.uk
Stephen.fenwick@sutton.gov.uk
Sgb2006@hotmail.co.uk

Watch this space for any consultation dates...

Stewart Consv Mackay said...

I'll be going around Hampton Road this morning with a petition, if you see please feel free to stop and sign it.

Stewart Consv Mackay said...

I'll be going around Hampton Road this morning with a petition, if you see please feel to stop and sign it.

Visiting Windsor Road said...

I visited my mother who lives in Windsor Road last week, and it took me just under 15 minutes to get from the the bollards in Windsor Road to the High Street...very frustrating.
However, I was not the most frustrated person on Windsor Road/Hampton Road that morning, as numerous people were sounding their car horns (at 7.30am) and then I witnesses something so dangerous I had to hold my breath and hope no one got hurt....As vehicles were queuing on Windsor Road to get on to the high street and vehicles were also wanting to turn down Yoga Way, within a 5 minute period (whilst I was stationary), two cars who wanted to go down Yoga Way made the very dangerous decision to jump the queuing traffic and drive down the wrong side of the road (in Windsor Road) to take their turning. On the second occasion the car with met head one by a car leaving Yoga Way turning right to go down Windsor Road...very, very scary.
It gets worse...one car mounted the pavement, which then left me worrying about the pedestrians as well. This was a serious accident waiting to happen. And, even more worryingly if an accident had happen there was no way an ambulance could have got or indeed left the scene quickly, as vehicles were blocking up all the surrounding roads.
Please Sutton Council, reverse your decision to make the entrance to Stone Place car park one way, or you could have blood on your hands.
NB: I have photos of this unsafe driving, should anyone want them.

Worcester Park Blogger said...

Feel welcome to send the photos in (mail@worcesterparkblog.org.uk) if you don't mind them being shown on here.

guest ab said...

Making the present one way into Stone Place from Central Road into two way will not ease problems. Prior to the current change i have seen drivers using the car park as a short cut from Windsor Road driving at speed in order to get past traffic queues in Central Road, totally oblivious of pedestrians or cars trying to park and the 5MPH signs in the car park.
There are two problems , one: idiot drivers and two: all the traffic lights/crossings through to the A3. Number one can only be dealt with by taking cars away from the idiot drivers and number two by the Traffic engineers from Sutton,Kingston anf TFL getting together and coming up with a JOINT solution .ie maybe taking some of the lights out at junctions and putting in roundabouts, which has been proven on the Continent to keep traffic flowing and reduces accidents(amber gamblers)

Stewart Consv Mackay said...

Please do not forget to email Cllr Eric Allen: eric.allen@sutton.gov.uk
This is his ward and we are working as part of team.

Mr A N Other said...

I signed your petition this morning, Mr Mackay.
Thank you for your work on this issue - it's much appreciated.

Stewart Consv Mackay said...

Thank you to all the residents that came to see me today. It was great meeting you all. Hopefully if we pull together we can get this disastrous decision overturned.

Stewart Consv Mackay said...

Don't forget to friend on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/stewart.mackay.98

guest D said...

Stewart,


I appreciate your efforts are well intentioned, but concentrating on this tiny part of the WP trafiic system is not the way forward. The issue is really one of too many cars trying to go from WP in the direction of Kingston than the system will support.



There are solutions, as 'guest ab' says increasing the flow (by removing traffic lights) along the Kingston section will improve the flow in WP. People trying to travel at different times will improve the flow as well. As would increasing Public Transport (if flow is measured in numbers of people, not vehicles).



The WP traffic system is very close to total collapse and as the Stone Place scheme has shown a tiny change can have a very much greater than intended result. I suspect that if you get the scheme changed back it will not have much effect on the roads that are currently affected, but will have an effect on the traffic on Central Road and on safety in the car park and probably increase the frequency of WP traffic jams.


The ideal solution would be as you have (I think) previously sugested would be a new road punched through but the cost both monetary and political is so high I don't think it will happen.

Alex said...

This is exactly the response I would expect from the incompetent Council worker(s) who unexpectedly received a pile of cash and promptly threw at the first thing they thought of - a completely unresearched one-way scheme in the car park!

This is not some natural build up of excess traffic over time - it is the instantaneous result of disastrous interference in traffic flow by persons who obviously both know nothing about it and are far removed from the streets they have utterly gridlocked.
[The fact that residents have asked, demanded and begged for this chaotic mess to be reversed and at best, this has resulted in nothing, except a response of "we'll see" suggests nobody actually cares, even now!].

Councillor Kirsty Jerome appears to be fronting the Council team who installed this nightmare in the Nonsuch ward, who is, as luck would have it, a Councillor for the Nonsuch Ward, whose residents are now blighted with a manufactured traffic jam, every day.
If Cllr. Jerome cannot accept that this decision was a desperately poor one, which urgently needs reversing, is it not reasonable for her constituents to accept that their choice of local Councillor was a desperately poor one, that at the forthcoming local elections, will urgently need reversing?

guest D said...

It is clear you don't understand chaotic system, once you make a change, it's like Humpty Dumpty it won't go back together again. The change will have altered the fundamental traffic flows, people will have found new 'Rat Runs' they won't just switch back.



I would also disagree with you, it is a natural build up in traffic over the course of time, 3% more cars on the road each year means 3% more traffic, at some point in time you get traffic jams and that point in time for WP is now.



The capacity of the WP road system hasn't changed, except to get smaller with an increase in parked vehicles, yet the demands on it have grown, so at some point it will seize solid,.take a look at Darcy's law for example for what will happen in a fixed maximum flow system.

Windsor Road resident said...

I ask, does guest live on Windsor, Hampton or Moreton Roads? I think not. If they did they might well be tired and incensed by the negative  impact to their daily life that the one way system has caused... early morning delivery lorry wake-ups at 5am, then grid-lock traffic at 7am, which causes frustrated/dangerous driving as a resident witnessed, then an all-day vehicle flow on a residential road. Yes flow could be improved etc, what a idealised outlook. The immediate reality is what resident's are describing,  can guest really say the decision to make Stone Place by Iceland one-way good? The fact is it's currently a very bad decision that the surrounding roads do not have the infrastructure for. It's a plan on paper that was viable, but it's actually proving disastrous. There is a review period, so let's hope Sutton council truly reviews, hold their hands-up, be honest, acknowledge it does not work and reverse it.

Thanks to Stewart said...

I personally am very thankful to Stewart, for knocking on doors and listening to the people who life in situ and are impacted daily by this decision. Read the below resident's accounts, this is our reality, it's a nightmare

Alex said...

It's patently not an extra 3% over the long-term - it's an immediate and unparalleled increase of traffic and resulting gridlock in the residential streets surrounding Hampton, Windsor, Moreton and Donnington Roads, ALL resulting from a duff council decision.

Clearly (as someone else has already commented) you don't use these streets and you didn't before, so you have absolutely no idea what you are writing about! We DO know about this subject because we DO live in amongst the artificially and council-created smog filled disaster area.


The enforced council decision to bizarrely move queuing cars OUT of the car park where they inconvenienced no residents and INTO the surrounding residential streets where hundreds of families live and are now breathing in the results of this almighty cock-up. [Who, in the name of insanity ever heard of a local council pushing cars out of a purpose-built car park and onto the surrounding streets???]


There is absolutely no reason why this cannot simply be reversed back - it's simply a question of people pressure publicly pressing the Council into accepting they did not bother to think this through and as a result got it very badly wrong.

guest D said...

I'm not saying it was a good decision, far from it. It looks a typical 'do something' politician scheme, that went against
traffic engineers advice and so will be defended by those politicians to the hilt. What I'm saying is don't expect any improvement from a reversal of it. Also what I am saying is that campaign to get it reversed is like asking the band on the Titanic to play louder.

The problems with WP traffic are far far deeper than any simple fix will solve. In fact the problems with traffic in the whole of South West London are far bigger than ones where any simple fix will solve.

The railways caused South West London's explosion in growth, take a look at the OS map of 1894 WP hardly existed and was in the main concentrated around St Philip's, the railway was draging it down the hill though. When cars became common starting in the 1920s and 1930s, the seeds of modern day traffic problems were sown, roads were built but where they hit a railway line to cross the Southern Railway's land a level crossing was built. If a bridge was built then it would be narrow, so would need widening in the post war era.

I'll repeat again, we need politicians that are brave enough to go for solutions to the fundamental problems not tinker at the edges and any that do campaign for that will get my vote.

guest D said...

That is rubbish. Closing that rat run has not caused an increase in traffic, all it has done has changed the micro flows of the existing traffic, for your suggestion to be true it would have required 100s of people to go out and buy cars. There will have been no significant change of the total traffic through WP only to changes to parts of it. Yes I never do use those roads, but I have noticed a slight improvement in Cheam Common Road, Central Road and Longfellow Rd.



But in the main if I have to meet a client to the west of WP I go early and prepare for the meeting in a local cafe.


I'll say again WPs traffic needs a holistic solution and now.

Alex said...

As you eventually had to admit, the last time you started committing to the blog what you don't know, you have no real experience of the subject under discussion. - As I recall, you conceded you hadn't been near the car park are since the previous month and until it was explained to you that it was free for 2 hours, you were energetically writing about the cost of parking in the car park.


So there it is, someone who protests that there hasn't been a change in traffic in an area, though they don't actually have the first clue about living in the area before or after the change! [If you DID live in the Windsor/Hampton/Moreton/Donnington/Balmoral/Kingsmead area, you'd almost certainly have a very strongly different opinion].
No amount of hands-off, inconsequential rambling will overcome a basic lack of hands-on local knowledge: The Council made a bad call and the result is massively negative. The answer is dead simple: The Council need to find the guts to admit they got it wrong and reverse it - and do right away! ... And before they change anything else!

guest D said...

You should become a politician, to them everything is simple. Changing it back WILL NOT make a difference! WPs problems are intrinsic.



One question, has the traffic flow through the railway bridge decreased since the change? If it hasn't that means that Worcester Park's traffic hasn't changed. To express it mathematically WHMDBK flow + the rest = Total, if the total has remained the same the the rest has gone up if WHMDBK has gone down.



I would bet that a number of these cars now queuing through your roads have come up from Ewell because with current problems on Kingston Road, it is slightly quicker to come that way.



I have no knowledge of your micro problems, but I do have knowledge of the macro problems. Deal with the macro problems and the micro problems will resolve themselves.


WP politicans need to address those macro problems, in fact really it needs a London wide solution to traffic management. Traffic management in a city the size of London is a horrendous problem and needs engineering based solutions, not ones designed to appease those that shout loudest.

Axl Wifey said...

Perhaps an idea to stop Stone Place being a rat run would be to change the ticket system, if there were ticket barriers that needed validating or couldn't be immediately used for exit then that could stop people just driving through? Just an idea, not sure what the actual logistics would be.

Alex said...

Indeed, you have no knowledge of the effects of this council manufactured disaster that has been forced upon us (that you deem 'micro'). The gridlock crisis effect on us, outside our homes and upon everyone using the surrounding residential streets - every day - is certainly 'macro'. And all for no gain and no good reason.

To express your view mathematically:
Zero knowledge + zero experience = Pure BS

Obviously Sutton Council don't want to listen to good sense, so we have a fight on our hands. So be it. Whatever the outcome, your empty-headed nonsense certainly won't make a jot of difference.

Alex said...

Appreciate your constructive thoughts, but imagine the queues building up behind someone with an invalidated ticket - the result would be no different to the current gridlock. Essentially it's an artificial solution to an artificial problem - the cheapest solution is to simply remove the problem - remove the one-way system that simply doesn't work.
The source of the problem is a one-way plan that someone in Sutton Council thought would work brilliantly in the car park and swiftly implemented ... but apparently without actually bothering to think what would happen outside the car park! The result is static traffic everywhere, every day - it can't go on!

Andrew said...

Whilst there has evidently been I knock on effect to the Windsor Road residents, I struggle to understand how the closure of the exit of stone place onto Central road has caused this.

The bottle neck as we all know is Malden road, past the station. The traffic here has remained constant. Therefore surely even when the car park exit was still in operation, once the route through the car park was saturated (with perhaps 20 - 25 cars) surely there were queues in Windsor Road at the point? Even with the exit now closed, no fewer cars now exit Worcester Park than they could before. So how would the queues in Windsor Road disappear??

Also I'd be interested to hear what effect this has had on the queues in Longfellow Road, whereby people where constantly blocked from turning right by the hoards exiting stone place, and I wonder what their opinion would be as to reverting back to how it was.

As much as you want to disagree with guest D, the real issue is indeed the near catastrophic level of traffic flowing through Central Road which is ever increasing, and a real solution needs to be decided.

Howard said...

You mention the increase in parked vehicles. The removal of the railings along Central Road has meant that cars can park there. When the railings were in place there was not so much parking in the main road.

Chell said...

I used to live in Longfellow Road for 26 years. Before there was a supermarket in Stone Place Car Park it was a large car and lorry park with one entrance from Central Road. When Somerfields (now Waitrose) moved there and the Library, another extrance was made Windsor Road. The impact that had on Longfellow Road was dreadful - I lived near the Central Road end but it could still take over 25 minutes to exit the road, mainly because of cars turning into and exiting Stone Place car park. Traffic would build up outside the door from 0730 and the noise and exhaust fumes were evident in the front room. I thought making it one way was a sensible decision but has obviously caused problems in other roads but reversing it would just reinstate the earlier problems. A car park is not supposed to be part of a road route or to provide any sort of solution to an increasing traffic congestion problem. That is not appropriate or effective.

jocypri said...

Hi - i witnessed something exactly like this incident too - it was really incredibly dangerous, and then the idiots in question got INTO the car park and one went straight out through the no entry! If someone had been coming the other way there would have been a major problem!

Andrew said...

Any road has a maximum capacity. It is quite clear to all that Central Road / Malden Road is at capacity from about 7am onwards. It is saturated. Surely then, at that point it takes X amount of time for X number of cars to leave Worcester Park, wherever or however they get on to Central Road. Therefore closing the exit of Stone Place has shifted the traffic from one place (probably Longfellow Road) to another (Windsor Road).

Changing it back will just switch the traffic jams back to another place, but they will still exist, and someone, somewhere, will still be pissed off with waiting in a queue. The capacity is the capacity, and this cannot be exceeded. Therefore closing/opening exits and entrances to the car park will not alter the flow of traffic out of Worcester Park - that is not the real issue!

And Sutton Council / TfL, cannot be blamed for people's impatience or careless driving, or their disregard for the laws of the road.

jocypri said...

i completely agree with you that changing the one way system will not help to fix the problem of too much general traffic in the general area, but Hampton Road has a primary school at one end, and the way people are driving down it now at the speed of the main road is just plain dangerous for both residents and families using said school. Perhaps the answer is to install speed bumps so people can still have access, but are forced to drive at a sensible speed.

guest D said...

Speed humps and their like don't have much effect on these idiots they seem to drive over them faster. They do however have a major effect on the night time noise level for the people living there.


I don't know whether South Worcester Park is like North Worcester Park a 20 MPH zone, if not it should be as it is primarily resedential. And then PCOs visibly placed with speed guns every few days may have an effect, it would also deter those that think they can ignore traffic laws. In addition they should enforce the no parking zone by the school.



As to reverting the flow in Stone Place, I'm sure I've read somewhere a directive requiring councils to prevent car parks being used as Rat Runs, due to the danger involved. I know of one in Balham where this has been done and a number of garages that have had to make their forecourts one way to avoid them being used to skip past lights.


I would personally prefer the money that it would cost to be spent on coming up with a proper solution to all of WPs problems, the trouble is all it needs is for Kingston to put a set of traffic lights with the timings favouring Kingston WP against Sutton WP and Sutton WP would sieze up.


I think that really traffic management for London should be taken out of the hands of the Local Authorities and put under the control of TFL otherwise you end up just moving the jam a few 100 metres.

Andrew said...

I can imagine that it's pretty treacherous, Hampton Road is very narrow and clogged up at the best of times!


I can say from experience after living on Boscombe Road for years, (particularly after the Hamptons opened (once a cul-de-sac, now a through road for perhaps 500 people)), that speed humps don't really slow people down if they truly want to drive somewhere fast, they just create a lot of noise when people wreck the front of their cars going over them at 30 mph.


Perhaps traffic calming such as in Green Lane, or even an average speed camera at each end of the road, would be effective?

Alex said...

How revealing that in contrast to those of us having to incur the enforced one-way car park chaos of 5am deliveries and Sutton Council-manufactured gridlock, every morning, outside our homes and across the residential roads leading off Windsor Road: Those writing to express the view that this is preferable to changing back . . . DON'T ACTUALLY LIVE IN THE AREA AFFECTED!
Did anyone else note that in referring to the unnatural gridlock now forced upon Windsor/Hampton/Morreton/Donnington/Kingsmead, the unguarded references to maintaining gridlock in these roads, as it may be aiding traffic flow nearer their own homes and along their preferred rat runs . . . why, how un-community spirited!

guest D said...

And you will have my support in that, we need a holistic solution.

Barry Cullum said...

Alex.
It's obvious which blog contributor you're referring to, and no he or she doesn't live in the area affected. (I don't either, but I know the roads well). Personally I think he or she is a damned good, if controversial, blogger but that's beside the point here.

Community spirit doesn't come into it either. Be honest, how much would you care if The Avenue got turned into a traffic hell-hole because some berk in Epsom Town Hall screwed around with the traffic flow there? It wouldn't be your direct problem.

So your right, it's easy to pontificate when you're not being totally pissed off by a bunch of pillocks sitting at their office desks 5 or 6 miles away in Sutton pretending they know what they're doing when they haven't really got a clue.... and you are also right to be very angry indeed. So would I be if I'd had all this crap suddenly thrust upon me.
If it's any help, I saw this coming a mile away when I heard about the changes to the car park. Central Road gets so clagged up these days that everyone has their own favourite little rat-runs to avoid the worst of it... including the car park when it was possible. No argument about that, it worked ok....just.

It amazes me (or does it these days?) that if I, as a mere electrician, could see it coming, that a bunch of so-called "traffic experts" could funnel all these minor rat runs into a complete balls-up. ... and I've seen it as a pedestrian. It's gone beyond a joke.
I noticed that a few weeks ago, one of these streets was closed off to traffic and turned into a play street for kids for a few hours.... Be bloody hilarious if they tried that again now huh?

guest D said...

Barry you do yourself down a mere electrician will have a great understanding of the law of mass action, or as it is called in your field Ohm's Law.


There's no difference between traffic flow along roads and current along cables, so you (with your years of experience) will know instictively what will happen when you close off part of the circuit.

Barry Cullum said...

Yes of course I know. If you shut down one circuit and then maintain the same current flow through the circuit as a whole by increasing the applied voltage, the current through each individual circuit increases. If any circuit is then overrated, the increase in power consumed in that circuit will cause a rise in temperature and may cause that circuit to burn out.....
I think we can assume those circuits are Windsor/Hampton/Morreton/Donnington/Kingsmead. There's certainly a rise in temperature in those circuits due to some jerk in Sutton deciding to close off the car park circuit, whilst trying to maintain the current flow from North Cheam to the railway bridge at WP station..
It's an interesting analogy but it doesn't really help those poor sods who live in the above streets and who's only crime was to be in the way of Sutton Councils perverse idea of "progress"

Alex said...

Barry, I was actually thinking of two contributors, rather than one. "Gridlock doesn't matter if it doesn't affect me" is hardly speaking from a position of integrity - particularly on what is 'a community blog'. Presumably neither shop at Waitrose then? I bet they drive to and shop at a large Tesco or Sainsburys ... then return to write on the blog that people need to support their local traders. [You know the type].
If plans for Worcester Park Tavern go ahead, the Avenue could well turn into traffic hell-hole, since it's purpose will be the overflow car park. I'll wait to see the forthcoming planning application, but if the numbers don't add up (like Green Lane did not), you can guarantee I'll object as it's pretty obvious that there would be a knock-on effect, far beyond the Avenue.

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